Interesting Article if your a Zodiac Fan

[yokied]

Before we get into the back and forth, Rob at Topper sent me some encouraging news today: his relationship with Fossil has improved and they will be a bit more responsive to customers. Case in point: he can now order replacement bands and bracelets. Hopefully I'll have a few winging their way to me soon.

I really don't agree with you. Their LE numbers are well in reason and bring exposure to a recovering brand. Understand Zodiac is still working to establish the brand in the markets they are starting with so they are just not ready to add other markets yet. Their move from new designs that were not working, to the series of reissues with some modern tweaks which have been working better. Even with that, they are still reasonably unknown. In some cases, Toppers has sold a reasonable volume of the LE Zodiacs so their numbers seem to match the market at this time if they did not have Toppers in their cormer to sell quite a few.

I understand the context of a recovering brand that doesn't want to get stuck with firesales, but the pressure to come up with many good designs that sell in lots of 82 is also very substantial as we're seeing. Sure, don't issue 1000s of a limited edition for all the reasons you documented and I agree with, but the numbers are a little TOO within reason. The ZO9265 is the clearest example: it has been sold out for ages but remains on the Zodiac homepage and the original was selling very strongly in the vintage market. And if the offers to buy I receive on instagram and lack of availability in the second hand market are of any use to you, it should've been issued in a greater quantity than 82, perhaps somewhere between 150 and 300 eg 182?

Re the movements, this is a much more marginal point and I won't continue pushing that barrel. I have a feeling one of mine might be going back Switzerland way to get straightened out though.

The no date thing has a bit of history with Topper. When Longines announced discontinuing the No Date LLD Toppers asked them to build what they could from parts inventory for the ND. I think they got like 50- 70 ND LLD, which sold out in a few months. Rob and Eric would probably find it funny you stating that it's just a bezel change with no date. If you have ever been part of a design project and see all the text messages and phone calls back, and forth over these subtle details you would be amazed. Some more substantial things have been proposed, but they have to be looked at for the ability to actually build and sell them. Sometimes the manufacturer just says no and you have to start all over on something. This week we looked at over a dozen variations of a single part that we do not know if some of them Zodiac will agree to make or if they are worth the added expense to have them made just for the Topper LE? I'm just happy to have some part in helping develop some of these watches. I tend to buy the watches I've had a part in, but I also buy some of the ones Zodiac has done. The new SSW 69 50th Anniversary would be worth it to me if it was just the old diver's ad Seawolf logo on the back. Omega has Snoopy and Zodiac has the wolf. The watch has a few other differences so for me it is easy to justify. The size of the 68 limits its audience so these may take a bit more to sell out.

In general I'm anti-date and will never understand why Longines discontinued LLD no date. I applaud Rob's initiative there - my objection with the Zodiacs in question is that we're talking about two very similar limited editions. I understand from a design point of view there was a fair bit of work. Similarly, I think you'll find Giuseppe and other Zodiac designers could describe just how much work went into the original LE that the Topper was clearly based on.

But design experience is not what customers experience here. I'm basically a jewellery/fashion customer and from where I sit, the Topper edition was given a grey top-ring and a sunburst dial and no date. Bluntly, Richard and I are some of the guys buying the watches when they're released at or close to full retail that help resurrect the brand. If guys like us think at least one of those Toppers is a bit close to previous limited editions and IMHO that's risky then yeah, I'd take note if I was in Fossil management.

While Fossil group is a big company Zodiac is still trying to recover from some of the previous and current owners missteps. Zodiac is smaller than you think. I believe they are now going in the right direction which is part of the battle. I personally would not know if anyone has an Instagram or Facebook presence. Not a form of media I want anything to do with and those that use them seem to have more negative than positive exposure. Do any of these social media presences really help any brand that is not just crowdfunding a watch?

I agree they're heading in the right direction. My comments originate from the point of view that they know what the mistakes look and feel like, they've been at it a while and someone in that corporation should be able to help steer them away from the mistakes I've highlighted. And there should've been more progress than there has been.

BTW Instagram is doing some serious commercial damage in jewellery and fashion which is what watches are (in a commercial sense at least, I'm afraid). This is not my industry so I can't blind you with the science but it's real enough as a consumer. I wouldn't have pulled the trigger on the four new watches I have bought in the last year without the images I saw there and interaction with other customers. FYI: I'm over 35, hate social media in general and don't do facebook but instagram is quite focused and makes finding and discovering things quite easy.

[Samanator]

Before we get into the back and forth, Rob at Topper sent me some encouraging news today: his relationship with Fossil has improved and they will be a bit more responsive to customers. Case in point: he can now order replacement bands and bracelets. Hopefully I'll have a few winging their way to me soon.



I understand the context of a recovering brand that doesn't want to get stuck with firesales, but the pressure to come up with many good designs that sell in lots of 82 is also very substantial as we're seeing. Sure, don't issue 1000s of a limited edition for all the reasons you documented and I agree with, but the numbers are a little TOO within reason. The ZO9265 is the clearest example: it has been sold out for ages but remains on the Zodiac homepage and the original was selling very strongly in the vintage market. And if the offers to buy I receive on instagram and lack of availability in the second hand market are of any use to you, it should've been issued in a greater quantity than 82, perhaps somewhere between 150 and 300 eg 182?

Re the movements, this is a much more marginal point and I won't continue pushing that barrel. I have a feeling one of mine might be going back Switzerland way to get straightened out though.



In general I'm anti-date and will never understand why Longines discontinued LLD no date. I applaud Rob's initiative there - my objection with the Zodiacs in question is that we're talking about two very similar limited editions. I understand from a design point of view there was a fair bit of work. Similarly, I think you'll find Giuseppe and other Zodiac designers could describe just how much work went into the original LE that the Topper was clearly based on.

But design experience is not what customers experience here. I'm basically a jewellery/fashion customer and from where I sit, the Topper edition was given a grey top-ring and a sunburst dial and no date. Bluntly, Richard and I are some of the guys buying the watches when they're released at or close to full retail that help resurrect the brand. If guys like us think at least one of those Toppers is a bit close to previous limited editions and IMHO that's risky then yeah, I'd take note if I was in Fossil management.



I agree they're heading in the right direction. My comments originate from the point of view that they know what the mistakes look and feel like, they've been at it a while and someone in that corporation should be able to help steer them away from the mistakes I've highlighted. And there should've been more progress than there has been.

BTW Instagram is doing some serious commercial damage in jewellery and fashion which is what watches are (in a commercial sense at least, I'm afraid). This is not my industry so I can't blind you with the science but it's real enough as a consumer. I wouldn't have pulled the trigger on the four new watches I have bought in the last year without the images I saw there and interaction with other customers. FYI: I'm over 35, hate social media in general and don't do facebook but instagram is quite focused and makes finding and discovering things quite easy.

I’ll be curious when you see the next three Topper LE what you think? They take from the past and add some touches from today to make them unique. These are mostly different from any current Zodiac. That is assuming Zodiac will build them as we’ve designed them. Fingers crossed they say yes. These are no date of course while the originals had dates.

Happy that Rob was able to get what you needed. I had talk with him a few hours before about your comments and a few hours later he came back saying he could get what you needed. I know he was swamped when he got back from Basel so this was probably the first time he could address this.

On the current LE it was originally the silver starburst dial version which there was no Zodiac equal. I can’t remember why the black was added. Possibly just to address a ND option to the z09265? Add these also have reduced dial text and an applied Zodiac Logo (verses printed).
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[yokied]

Thank you and to Rob. He is doing good work supporting Zodiac.

I'm curious to see how these others pan out, and the Sea Wolf 53 line in general. I can see myself getting another SW53 but I can't see another Astrographic or Sea Wolf 68 - they're just too big to have two in heavy rotation. I haven't been able to find a better dive watch than the SW53 and it makes me even more happy because it has kept me clear of Rolex and Longines. Sure the bakelite bezel is not the most robust as its detractors seem so keen to point out, but I would say to prospective buyers it's tough enough!

EDIT: about my only suggestion would be I'd love to see some green, teal or turquoise colours make their way into the SW53 somehow.

[yokied]

Saw this on the gram. Apparently it's a new one yet to be announced. I kinda prefer this to the light dial topper edition - the orange is better offset here by the black/navy.