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May 23, 2018, 04:42 PM
#2961
Originally Posted by
Dimman
Those guys are good, Vertex guy is bad. Contrast is opposite.
ok make sense I took it as one of them good and one as bad with Contrast and compare .... but yes I thought they was both good
sharky
one of the most original good guys their was never anything but a true friend "the daito to my shoto"
rest easy good buddy
https://gofund.me/eb610af1
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May 23, 2018, 06:10 PM
#2962
Originally Posted by
tribe125
I don’t much mind if the rich and privileged reserve a few trinkets for themselves, but it’s the inappropriateness of making such a trinket out of a ‘Dirty Dozen’ watch that makes me spit.
These are hallowed British military watches, the first to be specifically commissioned by the Ministry of Defence. Maybe 150,000 were produced during the Second World War. Justifiably or not, to anyone with an interest in British military watches they feel like part of a common heritage.
There has never been a satisfactory homage to these watches, and then where there is - and with an original maker’s name on the dial - it’s made by somebody from the world of luxury aviation, and it’s only available to the type of people who fly on his jets. The most toolish of watches becomes an expensive and exclusive trinket.
It’s annoying, to put it mildly. Contrast and compare with Bill Yao and Eddie Platts.
Originally Posted by
shameless
i understand exactly what Alan is saying and agree wholeheartedly -which is precisely why i pointed out earlier that devotees of these watches[and i am one of them ] would run a mile from obtaining this alleged 'homage'
I'm struggling to understand it...
(If this discussion goes beyond the scope of the thread, I'd kindly like to ask mods to move it, perhaps to that quoted Vertex-dedicated thread).
Based on what you guys are saying, my understanding is that your negative view of the current Vortex owner is based solely on sentiment or your hurt feelings. Alan (if I may), your notions of 'inappropriateness' and 'trinket' are subjective -- there's no substance other that you don't like it (but I do note that this seems to be a prevailing sentiment on the forum -- I read the thread linked by Raza and apart from a few voices of reason, like this one, I still don't see a lot of substance there; I was actually smiling going through the thread because the unsubstantiated outrage reminded me of kids screaming "we can't get what we want!"). It's difficult for me to comment on a 'common heritage' but an analogy that comes to my mind is -- hey, the moon landing was a great step for the whole human kind, shouldn't we all be able to celebrate it by massively owning Speedies? Well, we can't, the price makes it a somewhat expensive and exclusive trinket, no?
I don't know how from 'meh' I turned into DC's defender, but I appreciate how upfront the guy is about his philosophy and goals, and I have no reason to suspect that he's dishonest or has some hidden agenda. He challenged the existing watch sales models and kudos to him for that if you ask me, calling him names just because you have a different idea of how the brand should have been revived just doesn't seem right. If you censure 'referral-based elitism', but don't censure 'price-based elitism', it's just double standards to me.
Last edited by rodia77; May 23, 2018 at 06:11 PM.
Reason: typo
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May 23, 2018, 07:20 PM
#2963
Originally Posted by
rodia77
I'm struggling to understand it...
(If this discussion goes beyond the scope of the thread, I'd kindly like to ask mods to move it, perhaps to that quoted Vertex-dedicated thread).
Based on what you guys are saying, my understanding is that your negative view of the current Vortex owner is based solely on sentiment or your hurt feelings. Alan (if I may), your notions of 'inappropriateness' and 'trinket' are subjective -- there's no substance other that you don't like it (but I do note that this seems to be a prevailing sentiment on the forum -- I read the thread linked by Raza and apart from a few voices of reason, like
this one, I still don't see a lot of substance there; I was actually smiling going through the thread because the unsubstantiated outrage reminded me of kids screaming "we can't get what we want!"). It's difficult for me to comment on a 'common heritage' but an analogy that comes to my mind is -- hey, the moon landing was a great step for the whole human kind, shouldn't we all be able to celebrate it by massively owning Speedies? Well, we can't, the price makes it a somewhat expensive and exclusive trinket, no?
I don't know how from 'meh' I turned into DC's defender, but I appreciate how upfront the guy is about his philosophy and goals, and I have no reason to suspect that he's dishonest or has some hidden agenda. He challenged the existing watch sales models and kudos to him for that if you ask me, calling him names just because you have a different idea of how the brand should have been revived just doesn't seem right. If you censure 'referral-based elitism', but don't censure 'price-based elitism', it's just double standards to me.
I think you misunderstand the outrage. No one cares about getting this watch. It's basically open source given the MOD designed it. It's just that it is an incredibly unfiltered view of the sales manipulations and elitism that is very annoying in the hobby.
He represents a lot of the off-putting BS in a single brand. Zombie. Artificial scarcity. Manipulations of history.
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Post Thanks / Like - 2 Likes
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May 23, 2018, 07:40 PM
#2964
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May 23, 2018, 08:43 PM
#2965
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May 23, 2018, 08:46 PM
#2966
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Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likes
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May 23, 2018, 09:36 PM
#2967
Originally Posted by
Strela167
Ah, it’s a crown guard!
Reminded me of https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dm1iHi-38kk
It's the final countdown! PM me before they're all gone!
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May 23, 2018, 09:58 PM
#2968
Originally Posted by
rodia77
I'm struggling to understand it...
I did qualify my remarks at one point with ‘justifiably or not’, so I’m aware of their subjective nature.
On the other hand, the man quite openly says that he’s ‘sick’ of people having access to desirable things, so on this occasion ensured that they couldn’t. Sick of people having nice things? That’s not just the luxury market at work, that’s hostility to the average man. Yes, I will have a go at people like that.
As a descendant of the Vertex founder, I guess he had two choices in restoring the brand (which only really has the WWW watch as a claim to fame). He could make it available to enthusiasts who know the history and would value it, or he could limit it to friends and friends of friends who are unlikely to have heard of it until they receive the sales patter.
The first option would have resulted in an affordable watch with the kind of sales experienced by Bill Yao and Eddie Platts. The second option results in a considerably enhanced price to cover costs and ensure exclusivity. It wouldn’t surprise me if overall profit was not dissimilar in both cases. Which option would be the more noble tribute to his great-grandfather - and to the watch?
As it happens, I wouldn’t want to buy either of the new Vertex models at almost any price - applied numerals entirely made of lume doesn’t seem like a particularly good idea, and it’s a bit gimmicky. I also wouldn’t welcome the blackout treatment of the newer model.
All in all, it’s an opportunity missed. And I think there’s a difference between luxury brand exclusiveness and exclusiveness applied to what is essentially a hobbyist project involving a humble WWII watch. He’s sick of ordinary people having the same things as cool or wealthy people? That has to get a reaction.
He can do as he likes, of course - as can I.
Last edited by tribe125; May 23, 2018 at 10:15 PM.
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Post Thanks / Like - 5 Likes
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May 23, 2018, 11:49 PM
#2969
Originally Posted by
OhDark30
Ah, here I thought it was a staple remover.
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Post Thanks / Like - 3 Likes
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May 24, 2018, 07:44 AM
#2970
Originally Posted by
Dimman
Manipulations of history.
indeed the date line mixed up and some of the dates are off .. here is the timeline according to them ....
HISTORY OF VERTEX
Claude Octavius Lyons, was born in London in 1885 and started working in the watch trade when he was just 17 years old. He loved nothing more than solving problems and making things work. He set up Dreadnought Watches in 1912 with a £1,000 loan from his father-in-law and had paid it back within the year. He based himself in Hatton Garden and spent over 50 years in Diamond House where he became a leading light of the local community and the international watch trade. His devoted wife Dollie spoke fluent French and German and was an enormous support to him. Claude was a leader, a trader and, later in his life, a philanthropist.
THE TIMELINE
1912
Claude Lyons borrows £1,000 from his father-in-law Mr Mayer and sets up Dreadnought Watches, specialising in Swiss movements re-cased in Britain.
1915
Dreadnought produces watches for the British Military under the brand ATP.
1916
Vertex Watches Ltd is founded in London at 37 & 38 Hatton Garden and in Switzerland at 133, Rue de la Paix in La Chaux de Fonds.
1922
Aureole starts producing complete watches for Vertex and movements for the Platinum Ladies watch range.
1927
Vertex becomes the exclusive importer of Movado watches to the UK.
1931
Vertex starts working with Revue Thommen on a range of steel ‘All Proof’ watches.
1938
Henry Lazarus, who married Claude’s younger daughter Peggy, joins Vertex.
1940
Vertex’s Hatton Garden factory and showrooms are destroyed by enemy action.
1941
Henry, now a Captain in the British army and with his unique understanding of the Swiss watch industry, is asked to help with procurement of watches for the British Military.
1943
Navigation watch specs are received and production begins across four separate factories in Switzerland.
1944
Vertex starts producing the Cal 59 Nav watch. Vertex works with four Swiss factories to supply 15,000 watches.
1951
Vertex becomes the exclusive importer of Thommen-manufactured watches to the UK.
1956
Vertex starts co-branding watches as Vertex Revue in order to capitalise on both the Vertex and Revue Thommen reputations.
1960
Vertex launches the 87 Calibre 22 Jewel movement.
1972
Faced with pressure from the emergence of the new quartz watch revolution and the expiration of Vertex’s lease in Hatton Garden, Henry closes the company.
2016
Vertex is re-incorporated 100 years after Claude Lyons started the company by his great-grandson Don Cochrane.
sharky
one of the most original good guys their was never anything but a true friend "the daito to my shoto"
rest easy good buddy
https://gofund.me/eb610af1
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Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likes