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Thread: I Say Tomato...

  1. #1

    I Say Tomato...

    So the Thank You thread over in the Lobby, which quickly skewed into a discussion over IP law, MM and Parnis branded "homages," law school schedules (I remember mine, but don't want to dig through those bones), and the uncertain statement that "affordables" can be discussed over in Affordables, got me to thinking:

    How does anyone draw a reasonable line between an acceptable homage and a copy, whether it's an expensive copy or a cheap sterile knockoff?

    Just so we don't start too quickly down the path of all the parnis business--that really should be "small P" parnis, based on the excellent education in such by Ric from a long time ago in another place--let me just posit two points:

    Rolex Submariner vs. Tudor BackBay. Mercedes vs. Snowflake. Say what you want, same damn watch, one or both are copying the other or someone else, and they all cost a bloody fortune at least in comparison with any of the models you can buy that look just like either or both down to a couple bucks.

    If I can proudly wear a Tudor, why can't I do the same with a cheap diver?

    And because there has to be pics, here's three:


    The dictionary defines "homage" as an expression of high regard, or "something that shows respect or attests to the worth or influence of another." (I won't attribute the quote just to add a little plagiaristic fun to the game--an homage to the source, if you will.) If I get full-on plastic surgery to make myself look like a famous movie star, that's not an homage, that's creepy, no? Or it is just a creepy but acceptable homage? But what if I just go for the nose, or hair color?

    I'd like to say that a straight copy crosses the line, but then I take pictures of things all the time, makes albums of such prints, and never, ever feel badly about showing the pics, including one I took of Grand Teton from the same spot as Ansel Adams' famous one...

    Then, I'm way too much of a populist at heart to say only the rich should have the fun. There are countless decent, hardworking people for whom a Rolex or Tudor is not in the cards, now or ever, and why shouldn't they be able to enjoy a timeless design? Raise your hand if you NEVER put a poster on your wall while in college of some Picasso, or Ferrari ....

    I think in the end, something like a Bolex or Tubor would be an unacceptable copy. I'm troubled by sterile dials stuck in intentionally identical cases/hands. But I'm not troubled at all by a modded Seiko with mercedes hands and a pepsi bezel or snowflake hands and a red bezel. Maybe it's the 4 o'clock crown...

    0392.jpegSINN_856_UTC_FACE1.jpgm66.jpg
    Last edited by hwa; Nov 24, 2014 at 12:19 PM.

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  3. #2
    Watch Geek T Bone's Avatar
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    I think your last paragraph pretty well sums it up. Those with intentionally similar names/dial print is simply too much the copy. And anything with the actual name that is not is simply a fake.

    For the Rolex vs. Tudor thing, we need to remember that they are part of the same corporate group, and as such can copy their own designs to their heart's content (I happen to really like both and since there is such substantial difference, could actually see owning both).

    As for posters, no one is attempting to fool anyone about it being a real Picasso, are they? And photographs? Now we've ventured into comparing apples to steel ingots. Watch discussion can stand on it's own without bringing in all manner of other items IMO (I realize the broad scope of IP, but that IMO is not the intended focus of a General Watch Discussion Forum). JMO, and of course, YMMV.

    ETA: I meant to add WRT your pics, all 3 do have similar dials, but of course vastly different cases. Besides, no watch was the origin of that style dial face. It came from airplane cockpit instruments.
    Last edited by T Bone; Nov 24, 2014 at 02:11 PM.
    Regards, T Bone

    Even a broken watch shows correct time once or twice a day. I ought to know, I have a few!

  4. #3

    I Say Tomato...

    Not a big homage fan unless it's the brand that owns the original design putting one out from a discontinued line. It sucks when your waiting in the grocery store line and discover someone with an IW....ah not quite.

  5. #4
    MultiModerator Martin's Avatar
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    When I started this hobby, I was really discovering my taste. I tried anything from 34mm vintage to 47mm PAM Look-a-likes. And I'm glad I used cheap 'hommages' (Never ever a replica though) to help me steer my taste. What I though I liked, I got fed up with, but I kept coming back to certain models. At dome point I looked at my watches and saw these together:

    And then I knew, I need to get a DJ. And I bought one


    If I also look at the number of submariner like watches I own, I know there is a sub or a GMT in my future.
    But no more buying look-a-likes for me. I've passed that station.

    Regards,

    Martin

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  7. #5
    For me, the line comes between an honest watch displaying its own name and a downright fake aimed at deceiving people.

    The only homages that would interest me would be those made by the original manufacturer, so more re-releases. I understand who others might like them though. I just prefer to see original design coming through (ie a Monster rather than a Sub homage).

    Don't quite see how a Black Bay and a Sub are the same thing though. Different cases, different faces, different hands and different movements. I see them as alternative dive offerings from the same company.
    Last edited by OrangeSport; Nov 25, 2014 at 10:18 PM.
    G-Shock: GW-M5610-1E, GW-7900-1ER & GW3000B-1A
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  9. #6
    The Dude Abides Nokie's Avatar
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    It is funny because for my watch hobby I do not play with homages, but in my car hobby that is the acceptable practice.

    Go figure,,,,
    "Either He's Dead, Or My Watch Has Stopped....."
    Groucho Marx

  10. #7
    Gone. Not coming back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwa View Post
    How does anyone draw a reasonable line between an acceptable homage and a copy, whether it's an expensive copy or a cheap sterile knockoff?
    To me homages are fine, if they've got the homage maker's name on it or a sterile dial.
    When said homage has got the name of the original watch's maker on it, then it crosses into counterfeit/replica territory.

    MM's are different - an homage with MM on it is fine. But an MM with Panerai on it is not. That's how I look at it.

  11. #8
    rolex pic as answer guy mikeylacroix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    When I started this hobby, I was really discovering my taste. I tried anything from 34mm vintage to 47mm PAM Look-a-likes. And I'm glad I used cheap 'hommages' (Never ever a replica though) to help me steer my taste. What I though I liked, I got fed up with, but I kept coming back to certain models. At dome point I looked at my watches and saw these together:

    And then I knew, I need to get a DJ. And I bought one


    If I also look at the number of submariner like watches I own, I know there is a sub or a GMT in my future.
    But no more buying look-a-likes for me. I've passed that station.

    Regards,

    Martin
    thats how i came to my sub...
    all those sub homages in my collecting piling up...

  12. #9
    MultiModerator Martin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeylacroix View Post
    thats how i came to my sub...
    all those sub homages in my collecting piling up...
    hehehe


  13. #10
    rolex pic as answer guy mikeylacroix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    hehehe

    Bwahahahaha!

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