Shinola begins watch dial production in the US

[T Bone]

Maybe there's something in the water in that great failed shitehole Detroit that makes people stupid.

I dunno.

I'm all for returning manufacturing to the American economy.

Careful, your ignorance is showing.

Okay, I've isolated some of your comments into 3 sentences. The first of which, I take great offense to, both personally and generally. You see, I was born in, and have lived in Detroit. Currently live just outside of it. Are people here stupid? Some. Of course I am sure there are none of those wherever it is you live/are from (you don't bother to say, do you?). But you paint with an intentionally broad brush.

Is Detroit a "failed city"? Well, it was in bankruptcy recently (a victim of years of corrupt management, yes- and worse, a victim of a national economic failure that hit an already depressed area even harder, yes). But also a city that has recently emerged from bankruptcy. And the economy despite weak national leadership IS s.l.o.w.l.y. coming back.

Of course I'd be remiss if I failed to point out that the thing that caused you to make your broad remark (an incredibly ignorant one at that) was the naming of a company (still as I stated, name recognition, good or bad, time will judge them on it eventually) was done by the owner of the company, same guy who launched Fossil watches. Incidentally, he was in Texas at that time (a brief Google search actually didn't tell me where he's from, so I don't actually know- I do know that he's here in the Detroit area for the low cost of good facilities and a skilled work force).

Found the following quote from an online article of "The Economist":

IN SOME respects, Tom Kartsotis doesn’t take business too seriously. His company, Bedrock Manufacturing, is named for the Flintstone’s home town. Shinola, the most intriguing firm in Bedrock’s portfolio, bought its name from a long-dead brand of shoe polish best known for the insult “You can’t tell shit from Shinola”. Perfect, Mr Kartsotis believes, for a company that aims to become America’s largest manufacturer of high-quality watches—watches it is making in Detroit’s art-deco Argonaut Building, once home to General Motors’ research labs (pictured). “Someday”, claims one tongue-in-cheek Shinola advertisement, “they’ll call Geneva the Detroit of Switzerland”

Seems our boy has a sense of humor too. But he's been successful in the past (college drop out who scalped tickets for a living in Texas, started the Fossil brand, of which he still owns a good percentage worth hundreds of millions of dollars).

The third sentence about returning manufacturing to the American economy? While you're talking about it (and slamming the home of it), he's doing it. And in the place most noted for it in the first place, Detroit, Michigan. That instead of being online criticizing a place that from which the entire manufacturing industry has benefited in untold amount since it's inception (you perhaps have heard of the assembly line? How about the B-24 Liberator, a heavy bomber that was instrumental in turning the tide against the Axis in WWII?). Countless manufacturing processes were invented and implemented in Detroit throughout history, and that innovation is actually still going on here today.

The second sentence I isolated, "I dunno", really does sum it up. You simply don't know. Detroit's greatest problem really is I'd have to say, ignorance of some of it's residents and that of many people in other parts of the world. A subject I dare say you should know a bit about. But then, I ought to expect that. Because as the saying goes, it's clear “You can’t tell shit from Shinola”.

[Strange]

Mmmm gee somebody's whittle feewings got hurt didn't they. I guess the fact that Motown's population has been steadily decreasing since 1960 is an indication of just how wonderful a place it is. Aside from its historical significance, of which I am aware, it's tough to put a positive spin on a place people are abandoning in droves. Granted, that decline owes much to the auto industry's decision to offshore huge swathes of its manufacturing, thus virtually eliminating the city's raison d'etre; granted also is the effect of successive downturns in the US economy. Nonetheless, of the people I've known who've lived there nary a one regretted leaving. I know people who lived there in the 60s during the race riots who said they left because it was unlivable. I know people who left in the 70s because the job market virtually disappeared. I know a guy who went to Cranbrook Academy in the early 80s who loved the school but couldn't stand the place. All anecdotal to be sure, but that steady exodus of the last 54yrs is hard to ignore.

However, it matters not a whit what either of us think of Detroit, since it is orthogonal to the actual subject of this thread, which is the moronically named Shinola watch company.

[Jeannie]

Awwww...c'mon, let's all be friends.



Jeannie

[Strange]

Awwww...c'mon, let's all be friends.



Jeannie

[T Bone]

Mmmm gee somebody's whittle feewings got hurt didn't they. I guess the fact that Motown's population has been steadily decreasing since 1960 is an indication of just how wonderful a place it is. Aside from its historical significance, of which I am aware, it's tough to put a positive spin on a place people are abandoning in droves. Granted, that decline owes much to the auto industry's decision to offshore huge swathes of its manufacturing, thus virtually eliminating the city's raison d'etre; granted also is the effect of successive downturns in the US economy. Nonetheless, of the people I've known who've lived there nary a one regretted leaving. I know people who lived there in the 60s during the race riots who said they left because it was unlivable. I know people who left in the 70s because the job market virtually disappeared. I know a guy who went to Cranbrook Academy in the early 80s who loved the school but couldn't stand the place. All anecdotal to be sure, but that steady exodus of the last 54yrs is hard to ignore.

However, it matters not a whit what either of us think of Detroit, since it is orthogonal to the actual subject of this thread, which is the moronically named Shinola watch company.

Nah, my feelings are fine. Just that you speak of what you have no direct knowledge. Believe what you wish. But don't go slinging insults at people and places you don't truly know (..."sometihing in the water that makes people stupid"...). Ignorance, pure and simple.

On the name, I agree it was a questionable decision. It has a connotation that ties to the well known phrase. I think that's actually his point, I think the name recognition (again, good or bad, it certainly will stay with those who hear it) is what he was after. And it may actually pay off as a marketing decision (or it may bite him in the ass!). Too early to tell. Again, quoting from the above linked Economist article:

And what of that scatological phrase? Mr Carr thinks it helps keep the company honest: “We have to make quality products, or it will be used against us.” As if to tempt fate, last year Shinola added yet another American-made product to its collection: shoe polish.

Back to the discussion at hand, it is great to see a company make an effort to produce an American made watch (I hope that effort succeeds). And there truly is no better place (for many reasons) for them to base the company than Detroit. A city on the rise.

Never was a fan of Fossil watches, but their market success is undeniable. Not yet a big fan of this new start up either. But if they make a design I really want, I would be happy to add it to the collection, and even happier to have a watch "made in Detroit".

[oak1971]

Actually, if your marketing is good the name doesn't matter. The iconic names of some other products we revere today might have been looked at askance when they first arrived on the scene. He's proved he knows how to market and we all know that today marketing trumps all other factors.

[oak1971]

With the right marketing, I could sell you a poop Popsicle and you would believe it tasted delicious.

Poopsicle:.The sustainable snack.Made with 100% recycled content.

[T Bone]

Actually, if your marketing is good the name doesn't matter. The iconic names of some other products we revere today might have been looked at askance when they first arrived on the scene. He's proved he knows how to market and we all know that today marketing trumps all other factors.

Very good point. And lets look at two of the best know names in watches. Rolex. Timex. Is one copying the other? Maybe (in as much as taking a similarity in name for name recognition, not the watches themselves, though certainly there are some models with similar appearing features). Does anyone associate either with the other? No way! Researching just a bit, I was actually surprised to see that Timex is the older name of the two.

With the right marketing, I could sell you a poop Popsicle and you would believe it tasted delicious.

Poopsicle:.The sustainable snack.Made with 100% recycled content.

Lol... just, Lol!

[Strange]

Successful or not, marketing wise or not, the name is idiotic. Co-opting a historical marque to piggyback on its cred or cachet is lame, tacky, and an admission of a complete lack of imagination. Not really the traits one wants to associate with a new brand. My first response to seeing it was That's the best you could do? Seriously? Rather than coming up with something original and striving to make it iconic they got lazy and are trying to take an easy ride off of someone else's hard work. Even if they're successful with it it's still a cheesy thing to do. It's not that far off from companies that make 'homages' to other companies' successful designs. You might make money doing it but I sure as Shinola don't respect it. <rolls eyes in disgust>

[Jeannie]

Successful or not, marketing wise or not, the name is idiotic. Co-opting a historical marque to piggyback on its cred or cachet is lame, tacky, and an admission of a complete lack of imagination. Not really the traits one wants to associate with a new brand. My first response to seeing it was That's the best you could do? Seriously? Rather than coming up with something original and striving to make it iconic they got lazy and are trying to take an easy ride off of someone else's hard work. Even if they're successful with it it's still a cheesy thing to do. It's not that far off from companies that make 'homages' to other companies' successful designs. You might make money doing it but I sure as Shinola don't respect it. <rolls eyes in disgust>

I think that's a little harsh. And that's coming from someone who is part owner in an enterprise called "International Watch League."

Branding is branding and we love to say here we're not affected by it. I hear comments on watch fora all the time about the clueless non-WIS who flock to Rolex because they are seduced by branding and don't know any better. Bottom line is always the product and I've not looked hard at Shinola's so have no opinion of my own, but I've heard some good things.


Jeannie