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Thread: Apolitical thought on global warming

  1. #1

    Apolitical thought on global warming

    I copied a post I made somewhere else this morning and pasted it here to get the feedback from members. Please consider this apolitically.

    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/45786412.cms

    We do know that the average temperature of the planet is warming enough to cause sea levels to rise. Nations like The Maldives are actually planning for the day that they have to move their people inland. That's extreme and should be taken very seriously as people debate this issue. Clearly, warming is having a startling effect on some people around the world.

    That said, as the scientists in this article state, historical evidence and scientific reasoning tell us that we really have no understanding of why the Earth is warming. So far, no credible scientific body has been able to qualify, much less quantify, sound reasoning for believing that man is causing warming.

    We have to move, as a whole, closer towards a middle ground where we focus on the origins of warming instead of arguing about whether the Earth is warming. It is warming. Question is: why?

    Solar radiation on the Earth is very complicated. It seems so simple that the Earth travels around the Sun once for every 365 Earthly rotations. If you were to plot solar radiation on one point of the Earth with respect to time, you would expect a sine wave with relatively small amplitude with a period of one day. That sine wave would be positioned on a much larger-amplitude sine wave with a period of one year. So imagine on the steepest part of the yearly sine wave pattern, there is one day that both yearly and daily sine wave patterns are at their steepest. That would most likely be the day recorded as having the highest solar radiation growth (key word) out of the year.

    Now take that illustration and imagine that there are ten-year, hundred-year, thousand-year, and greater sinusoidal patterns that the Earth is absolutely known and confirmed to be exposed to with respect to solar radiation. Go back to the plot of daily and yearly radiation and now place the yearly sinusoid on a ten-year sine wave that travels on a hundred-year sine wave, which travels on a thousand-year sine wave, etc., etc. When you back up and look at the plot of solar radiation over time, suddenly there are points along the plot where the acceleration of solar energy is highest in ten-year, hundred-year, and thousand-year waves. At some point, the acceleration of solar radiation is almost a straight vertical line and practically unimaginable when compared to other time periods in Earth's past and future.

    If the Earth is in a period of predictable rapid solar radiation growth, which we can experimentally determine, we could at least form a theory from one of countless perspectives as to why the Earth's climate is changing.

    My second question to you is: why are scientists not presenting simple theories like I am describing to back up their opinions of man-made global warming? We know where the Earth is with respect to solar radiation cycles. If we're in a known downtrend of radiation at a time temperatures are rising, we may have an indicator of man's involvement. My belief is that the scientific evidence indicating man's involvement simply does not exist.

    What do you think?

  2. #2
    Dinger of Hum Chronopolitano's Avatar
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    I ain't sayin nuffin' till you tell me, mister, what them chemtrails are.

    WTF are they?

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  4. #3
    optimistic pessimist hayday's Avatar
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    Since the dawn of the Industrial Revolution, we have dramatically increased the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere while simultaneously dramatically cutting CO2 absorption through deforestation. This has had an effect on natural global warming: the theory that a blanket of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere acts as an insulating blanket that enables our planet to sustain life. In other words, global warming is a naturally occurring phenomenon and human activity has effected this, and by by effected I mean worsened.

    Are humans responsible for global warming? No. Are humans making our home inhospitable to our own existence? Absolutely.

    The fun part of all this is that many of the steps we can to reduce global warming pollution can also help grow the economy while saving consumers money. Yes, this can also be done in a way that destroys the economy but my point is the devil is in the details and nobody wants that. Making blanket statements like environmentalism will destroy the economy or humans haven't been involved do nothing but delay proactive steps from being taken.

    The scientific debate has long since ended, and it is past time to act. If nine mechanics said your car needs a new alternator, would you listen to the tire salesman who told you to replace your tires?

    -hayday
    Last edited by hayday; Jan 10, 2015 at 04:50 PM.
    The pessimist says it can't get any worse while the optimist says it can.

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  6. #4

    Apolitical thought on global warming

    Quote Originally Posted by hayday View Post
    The scientific debate has long since ended, -hayday
    The debate of the cause of global warming has ended? I wasn't aware.

    I'm hearing you say that the mechanics say there is global warming and its past time to act. That's interesting because the point of my commentary is that the dilemma is whether it's man-made. Are the mechanics all saying we have global warming, or are they saying we all know it's man-made?

    I'm trying to keep this topic about scientific principles. Just saying we know something is true or false isn't what I'm trying to elicit. Maybe being an engineer keeps me from seeing a typical perspective.
    Last edited by Rob; Jan 10, 2015 at 06:24 PM.

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  8. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Chronopolitano View Post
    I ain't sayin nuffin' till you tell me, mister, what them chemtrails are.

    WTF are they?

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  10. #6
    Bone Collector Bwana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    The debate of the cause of global warming has ended? I wasn't aware.
    Hell who knew ???, guess I can go back to burning plastic & discharging freon from my car AC...wheeew

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  12. #7
    Member Blanchy's Avatar
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    Global warming is in no way just caused by solar radiation, yes it is a factor but the CO2 levels also play a major role. As Hayday said CO2 levels in the atmosphere have drastically increased since the industrial revolution. High CO2 levels are linked to higher temperatures, this can be seen through fossil evidence from sediment samples in the sea, in times of ice melt (high temp) there was more CO2 present.

    Many of the hottest recorded temperatures have all occurred in recent years coinciding with increasing CO2 levels. Methane gas has a much worse effect on global warming that CO2, 21 times worse for the same amount. Again this gas is caused bu human activities. Mostly agriculture but also mining.

    I agree that global warming has occurred in the past without human interference but to say that we are not having an effect on the current situation is just naive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    My belief is that the scientific evidence indicating man's involvement simply does not exist.

    What do you think?

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  14. #8
    Bone Collector Bwana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blanchy View Post
    Global warming is in no way just caused by solar radiation, yes it is a factor but the CO2 levels also play a major role. As Hayday said CO2 levels in the atmosphere have drastically increased since the industrial revolution. High CO2 levels are linked to higher temperatures, this can be seen through fossil evidence from sediment samples in the sea, in times of ice melt (high temp) there was more CO2 present.

    Many of the hottest recorded temperatures have all occurred in recent years coinciding with increasing CO2 levels. Methane gas has a much worse effect on global warming that CO2, 21 times worse for the same amount. Again this gas is caused bu human activities. Mostly agriculture but also mining.

    I agree that global warming has occurred in the past without human interference but to say that we are not having an effect on the current situation is just naive.
    I should have read the posts more carefully, I agree with you. The "stamp" that man has put on the earth, has done tremendous damage...the melting of the Polar ice cap, and glaciers are proof enough.

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  16. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Chronopolitano View Post
    I ain't sayin nuffin' till you tell me, mister, what them chemtrails are.

    WTF are they?
    Or maybe:


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  18. #10
    Honestly - global warming is one thing. It's scary. Scarier still - to my mind - is the gradual ocean acidification caused by the increased presence of carbonic acid. We can debate until we're blue in the face about whether global warming is anthropogenic. But increases in atmospheric CO2, caused by man, is directly linked to the increase in carbonic acid in the ocean (carbonic acid being created by the mixing of CO2 and H2O at the surface of the ocean).

    More carbonic acid means fewer plankton (whose delicate exoskeletons are primarily made of calcium carbonate - which is significantly weakened - or destroyed - by their presence in a solution which is more highly acidic). And i don't think I need to spell out the disasterous effects that'll flow if plankton populations plummet or disappear.

    In other words - even taking global warming completely out of the equation - we still need to cut human sourced CO2 emmissions significantly.
    Last edited by thewalrus; Jan 10, 2015 at 08:00 PM.

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