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Jan 17, 2015, 12:51 AM
#1
Pocket watch question
This isn't my watch - it belongs to an antiques dealer who shares space in a local antiques centre. It was returned by a buyer because two of the hands fell off shortly after purchase. It apparently ran well enough before sale but no longer winds.
The dealer bought it in Saint Petersburg. It came with a story. It was said to be one of a batch intended for submariners serving on the Kursk, which famously came to grief in the Barents Sea. It had remained in a naval warehouse until somehow finding its way to the Saint Petersburg trader.
I have some doubts about this story...
Here's the watch -
The text on the front reads: 'Red Army North Fleet'. The text on the back reads: 'For Service to the Fatherland'. If my translation is correct, that is.
I have found many similar watches on the internet, but none with this inscription on the rear. Naval examples usually just have an anchor. Also, the other variants I have found have a polished (or chrome-plated?) front cover. Most, but not all, have a polished rear cover.
The main problem with the warehouse story is that the watch (and chain) show obvious signs of wear.
Questions:
- Has anyone seen an example with this inscription on the rear?
- Is there any record of Molnija pocket watches being presented to submariners - or are they all novelties or souvenirs?
- Is the finish on the front original or has the original polished finish worn away?
My personal theory is that it could conceivably have been presented to a submariner, but it could also be a novelty. Either way, its owner wore it until it stopped working. It was then inexpertly repaired and set aside for sale to a gullible tourist.
My antiques dealer friend, while knowing very little about watches, is reluctant to believe that he may have been conned. Out of courtesy, I kept the full strength of my scepticism in check and said I'd ask around.
Last edited by tribe125; Jan 17, 2015 at 04:31 PM.
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Jan 17, 2015, 06:57 AM
#2
well interesting story just one question you miss out how much did you buy it for lol... not really in to pocket watches but that does look quite charming but very tourist in look thou so love to find out what it is too
and if it's a molnija they are pretty good so yeah
sharky
one of the most original good guys their was never anything but a true friend "the daito to my shoto"
rest easy good buddy
https://gofund.me/eb610af1
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Jan 17, 2015, 07:07 AM
#3
and looking in to it a bit think it may have been put together thinking about it should it not have an anchor on the dial I was looking at molnija as a possible source for a pocket watch conversion in to a wrist watch and I saw thinking about it a submarine pocket watch that was I think a molnija let me see if I can find the pic's
does this help at all ?
sharky
one of the most original good guys their was never anything but a true friend "the daito to my shoto"
rest easy good buddy
https://gofund.me/eb610af1
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Jan 17, 2015, 04:52 PM
#4
Interesting pictures. They show the polished finish and anchor on the rear that I mentioned. I note the anchor on the dial, but wouldn't see that as an indication that the one I have shown is a 'bitsa'.
Since 'mine' has a rear insert that looks like bronze, I guess it's possible that it always had a matte front. I've probably seen approaching a hundred examples, but have yet to find one with the 'Service to the Fatherland' inscription or the matte cover (it feels and looks as though it could be pewter rather than steel, but I'm really not sure).
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Jan 17, 2015, 04:58 PM
#5
'Service to the Fatherland' bit throws me you would think more Germany then mother Russia that is what is throwing be off
sharky
one of the most original good guys their was never anything but a true friend "the daito to my shoto"
rest easy good buddy
https://gofund.me/eb610af1
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Jan 17, 2015, 05:07 PM
#6
I had similar thoughts, but remember we're relying on my translation achieved with the help of Google! There may well be a better translation.
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Jan 17, 2015, 05:29 PM
#7
sharky
one of the most original good guys their was never anything but a true friend "the daito to my shoto"
rest easy good buddy
https://gofund.me/eb610af1
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Jan 17, 2015, 05:31 PM
#8
Originally Posted by
is that my watch
well for the service to the fatherland
I get this
За заслуги перед Отечеством
which is similar but not the same
as on the watch back
Ah, but you're doing it in reverse. I entered the Cyrillic characters.
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Jan 17, 2015, 05:14 PM
#9
no reason why it should - although it tends to be associated with Germany for obvious reasons - the expression is also common to Russia along with the use of' Motherland' -in fact the most prestigious Russian award one can attain is 'for Service to the Fatherland ' - the use is governed i think more by its connection with politic and government as against the land of one's birth or 'Homeland 'as was adopted by the USA in more recent times
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Jan 17, 2015, 05:21 PM
#10
Originally Posted by
shameless
no reason why it should - although it tends to be associated with Germany for obvious reasons - the expression is also common to Russia along with the use of' Motherland' -in fact the most prestigious Russian award one can attain is 'for Service to the Fatherland ' - the use is governed i think more by its connection with politic and government as against the land of one's birth or 'Homeland 'as was adopted by the USA in more recent times
Useful - thanks!
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