Is Seiko overreaching?

[mlcor]

Those of us who are of a certain age can remember quite clearly when “Made in Japan” was a joke, and a sign of poor quality. Those of us who are, say, 20 years younger than that can remember when Korean manufacturers had the same poor reputation. Both countries have overcome those reputations, and the Koreans are getting closer to the Japanese quality-wise every day, having (IMO) passed US auto manufacturers.

And we all know who’s next in line in this progression.


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[Samanator]

This all seems reasonable if you have closely followed Seiko's actions over the past 12 years. Back then they declared the move upmarket for the brand. When they added hacking and hand winding to the monster about 6 years ago and, slowly phased out the 7 series movements over time they effectively tripled the price of a starter mechanical Seiko. Most Seiko sales are now through AD and Boutiques. Lower end quartz fills the lower levels and mechanical is slowly moving to $1000 and greater. Today $4000 is the start of mid level watches across many brands. The Marine Master 600 SD GMT has been at nearly this price for the past few years. With LE from both Seiko and GS selling out rather quickly, Seiko no longer has to compete on the price/value equation that they have in the past. Talk to people outside the watch forum groups and Seiko is seen as a higher brand then the fashion and click watch brands. They don't need to compete with these brands. Even Citizen has taken a major jump in price over the past four years. The Eco Drive One series retails between $2600- $6400 and the Basel announce GS competitor is $16K and these are quartz. G-Shock also has models in the same price range as these three Seikos so the Seikos look more like a value in this light.

To further show the direction Seiko is taking there were these which kind of reinforces what I said above:

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/seiko-p...watches-debut/

These are examples of the new affordable Seikos. Still very distinct from the crowd.






$450 retail yet some distinct elements.

[Samanator]

I went back and looked more at these Seiko spring drive offerings. I’ve talked with a few people who have actually seen them and I must admit I’m kind of excited about these. I’d buy nearly any one of the six. Nothing else other than the Tudor PO1 has nearly that much draw for me. The all black GMT is kind of cool without going the full black level from a few years ago(aka B&R). The blue Batmanish GMT is also pretty nice. Spring drive is Seiko’s Uber movement (even more than the misused Highbeat). It graces their highest level models (think Mlcor Credor). Other than the MM 600 SD GMT it has never been delivered in such a polished offering under the Seiko brand name. These feel like Seiko did not purposely make them lesser watches than a GS. These are a bit more manageable size than the 600. The have GS level case finishing of the titanium. Some are offered in their ultra scratch resistant black coating. No one else is offering level of finishing, movement and design. Now if they could nail a higher end chronograph?


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[CFR]

Hodinkee is actively helping to spread the word...

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/co...e-stefan-molin

To be fair, they're doing that for some time and for other brands. Business is business.

[Raza]

Hodinkee is actively helping to spread the word...

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/co...e-stefan-molin

To be fair, they're doing that for some time and for other brands. Business is business.

All part of Hodinkee's strategy to raise Grand Seiko prices. I think the staffers are bored with theirs and want to sell them at an inflated price.

http://www.intlwatchleague.com/showt...kos&highlight=

I called this out back in December!

[mlcor]

All I got from that article is the fact that I own a legendary watch.


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[yokied]

Does anyone see the Grand Seiko second hand market changing much over the next few years? It looks like most pieces, LE or otherwise, are losing circa 20% or more out the door and not recovering. I'm not experienced at this level but I'm sensing that a lot is going to have to change - a lot more a simple Hodinkeefication - for GS to improve their value retention.

I'm trying to talk myself out of one at the moment, so any compelling negativity would be greatly appreciated. Resale is a fairly weak consideration for me, so any wild servicing narratives? Lack of lame simply killing you? I had a good few months keeping it under control with some Casios and gshock acquisitions, but I'm wobbling here.

[tribe125]

It looks like most pieces, LE or otherwise, are losing circa 20% or more out the door and not recovering.

Like Omega, Breitling, Jaeger-LeCoultre, Vacheron Constantin and plenty more? In fact, some will lose more than 20% against their list price because they’re discounted by 10-20% at point of sale.

Luxury watches that maintain their price are rare, and brands that manage it are criticised for not making enough. Generally, there are more luxury watches than buyers, which is why in 2017, Swiss manufactures bought back $1.3 billion of unsold stock. With just a few notable exceptions, luxury watches are depreciating assets.