Seiko vs Citizen

[skriefal]

Quartz qualifies as haute horology for me. If it is an improvement in the area of accurate time tracking then it's "haute." And Citizen does seem to be ahead of Seiko in this area. Though (Grand) Seiko's 9F series is very nice too.

[tribe125]

Interestingly, the term ‘haute horology’ was first coined in the aftermath of the quartz crisis to emphasise that a quartz watch could never rival the refined craftsmanship of the finest mechanical watches.

Almost overnight, and after decades of prestigious chronometer competitions, accuracy was relegated to ‘nice to have’ - and the mechanical watch survived.

[tribe125]

I wouldn't qualify that as Haute Horology, but Precision Engineering. Little artistic, creative, or hand crafted input.

Citizen itself went some way to supporting this point of view, when explaining their decision to buy Swiss watch companies. The following is from an interview with their CEO in Europa Star -

Citizen worried about securing movements for Bulova and began shopping for a Swiss movement producer. La Joux-Perret solved the problem. It also gave Citizen the chance to revive its own outdated mechanical watch technology. Citizen has produced mechanical watches for nearly a century. However, since the quartz revolution, it has focused primarily on electronic watches.

“Our mechanical technology is quite far behind because we stopped developing it,” Tokura says. “We have a lot of catching up to do. There are a lot of things we can learn from the Swiss.”

In other parts of the interview, the CEO was rightly proud of the 0100 model, but was recognising that Citizen lacked gravitas as a watchmaker. Being good at quartz wasn’t enough.

Going back to comparing Citizen with Seiko, it’s apparent that Seiko has never felt the need to learn from the Swiss.

[Dimman]

Interestingly, the term ‘haute horology’ was first coined in the aftermath of the quartz crisis to emphasise that a quartz watch could never rival the refined craftsmanship of the finest mechanical watches.

Almost overnight, and after decades of prestigious chronometer competitions, accuracy was relegated to ‘nice to have’ - and the mechanical watch survived.

Citizen has its Haute Horology attempts with the Campanola, but it's several tiers behind Seiko's high end Credor and Grand Seiko. So it can't really say it's not trying to play the HH game. But Citizen Campanola mechanicals use ETA movements for crying out loud...

Seiko on the other hand competes directly with high tech Citizen with their high precision quartz and satellite connectivity watches. Citizen's current 1 s/y lead in the high precision quartz rivalry between the two doesn't omit it from it's incapability to play in the hand crafted field, which is still a genuinely important part of watches.

Seiko also has more significant innovation history. With original Astron and Spring Drive. Citizen only has satellite by a few months, as they didn't make the first solar watches.

[gnuyork]

Interestingly, the term ‘haute horology’ was first coined in the aftermath of the quartz crisis to emphasise that a quartz watch could never rival the refined craftsmanship of the finest mechanical watches.

Almost overnight, and after decades of prestigious chronometer competitions, accuracy was relegated to ‘nice to have’ - and the mechanical watch survived.

I think this applied to mega mass produced quartz though... Either way haute horology is a vague term. I suppose in the sense here we are discussing complications and hand finishing, which brings us to Credor, though I thought we were discussing normal run of the milll Seiko/Citizen.

[Dimman]

Going back to comparing Citizen with Seiko, it’s apparent that Seiko has never felt the need to learn from the Swiss.

Except for Dufour.

[tribe125]

Except for Dufour.

Very true - especially with regard to gentian trees.

[yokied]

Based purely on extensive observation without research, Seiko seems to have a wider design and technology range, taking fewer decisions and making them slowly. Seiko has built a stronger profile through advertising and marketing in western markets, undoubtedly. Citizen has a more focused approach, deciding on and prioritising proven materials, tech and designs that people actually use and wear.

About the only area where Seiko is verifiably ahead of Citizen is lume, otherwise I consider them as peers - more like an odd couple than close relations though.

[Sedi]

I'm a big fan of radio controlled watches and I think Citizen is ahead of Seiko in that area. My Seiko SSG013 can't even automatically adjust for DST! I never would have bought it, had I known that beforehand (but it didn't occur to me to check the manual for that detail as I couldn't imagine that there are radio controlled watches that don't adjust for DST automatically). Also - I never had a fogged crystal on a Citizen, while it happens a lot with Seikos. And I don't mean fog from humidity but some residue that is always visible.
I think the Eco-Drive technology also on the non atomic models is better than Seikos solar models. But I do love the perpetual calender solar Seiko that I have, which is really flawless. Overall - I love both brands, as I do love Casio, which IMO offers the most bang for the buck and the movement they introduced with the Multiband 6 GW-2000, with 24 hr timer, 24 hr stopwatch, and solar/atomic is IMO one of the best (all analog) quartz movements ever made, when it comes to functionality. So I'd have a hard time choosing between the "big 3" Japanese brands (including Orient, which is among my favorites for the mechanical movements, especially their power reserve models). They all have their strengths and weaknesses. I wouldn't say that one is ahead of the others in all areas.

[jbglock]

Frankly I am pretty unimpressed with both brands although I wouldn't be shocked if Seiko failed as a company one day. I would be shocked if Citizen failed.

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